韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-6 21:31:00

~~~~~~~日落王都~~~~~~~

<p>透过阳光,可以看到3千年前的余晖,照在王都之上......</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p><br/><br/>

爱钱如命 发表于 2009-7-6 21:33:00

<p>水果糖啊!掉地下摔了</p>

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-8 10:52:00

<p>西周玛瑙珠。博爱的大人最喜欢夏商周三代的珠子了,尤其是这种好看的。</p>
<p>这枚真好看</p>

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-13 21:32:00

<p>不是改的。这是胸前配饰的第一个璜,下面还有几组。所见这种璜形制均一,纹饰稍有不同,年代跨150年,可见是虢国玉礼器的固定形制之一。</p>
<p>玛瑙珠在西周普遍使用,但作用都是连缀玉片,尚未见单一成串使用的玛瑙珠。</p>
<p>下面是西周<font face="Verdana">芮国国君墓出土腕饰:</font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971321323662918.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/>

韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-13 21:01:00

好资料,不知道组配中的这个璜是不是残而后改制的?

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-11 17:30:00

<p>西周虢文公墓出土的玛瑙珠连缀原貌</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971117295110852.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/>

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-11 17:21:00

的确是贵族的物品。西周中期以后贵族佩带的整套玉饰中,常用玛瑙珠连缀玉片。从三门峡虢国大墓中出土的玉饰,就用这样的玛瑙珠连缀。玛瑙珠在西周后期墓葬、遗址广泛见到,是标志性西周遗物。

韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-11 15:29:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>瞌睡虫</i>在2009-7-8 10:52:00的发言:</b><br/>
<p>西周玛瑙珠。博爱的大人最喜欢夏商周三代的珠子了,尤其是这种好看的。</p>
<p>这枚真好看</p></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>谢谢师友,那个时代,这类也属贵族垄断。现今,其美绽放于大众。</p>

韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-11 15:23:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>爱钱如命</i>在2009-7-6 21:33:00的发言:</b><br/>
<p>水果糖啊!掉地下摔了</p></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>好吃吗?:)</p>

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-16 00:02:00

<p>没有图片,我也就是胡乱说说....</p>
<p>其实的确是没有答案啊,名物考辩自古就是难事,而且各家之言大相径庭。</p>
<p>就说璜。有一个叫黄以周的人,他的说法跟我上面讲得差不多,主张半字作一部分讲,并且胡乱评价一个早年间叫做江声的人,说江声主张半就是一半,如此看来江声便是书呆子;又说“半璧是璜、半圭是璋、半琮是琥,这连读过礼书的小童都知道,还用江老夫子出来说?”最后又说自己见过琮四分之一那么大的琥,这便是半不作一半讲的证据。。。。。不料江家后学急了,要揍他,让他拿出四分之一琮那么大的琥来看看;他怕了,连续躲,大有“鸡肋不足安尊拳”的架势。。。。。可见,的确是说不清的问题啊。</p>
<p>从考古记录看,新石器晚期以后璜渐多,各种形制都有。我想是不是后来有了变化,形制多种多样起来了;或许是当初另有名称,今天的人不知晓,也就叫做璜了。夏家店下层文化有一种近似三角形的玉器,也被叫做璜。</p>

韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-15 21:51:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>瞌睡虫</i>在2009-7-15 10:42:00的发言:</b><br/>
<p>这个“半”字作“一部分”解,不从本义。现在也有这样的词汇啊:半信半疑、半成品……一定要全面考察用字,要么迷团可多了。</p></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>哈哈,,师友剖析的真是细致入微,如果只围绕半字确实无有答案了,暂且算个无解的问题吧,如果您还有围绕这个形制特别的玉的图片那是最好了,谢谢您所跟的资料。</p>

韩雪晨 发表于 2009-7-15 10:27:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>瞌睡虫</i>在2009-7-13 21:32:00的发言:</b><br/>
<p>不是改的。这是胸前配饰的第一个璜,下面还有几组。所见这种璜形制均一,纹饰稍有不同,年代跨150年,可见是虢国玉礼器的固定形制之一。</p>
<p>玛瑙珠在西周普遍使用,但作用都是连缀玉片,尚未见单一成串使用的玛瑙珠。</p>
<p>下面是西周<font face="Verdana">芮国国君墓出土腕饰:</font></p></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;<span lang="EN-US">"......</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">下面还有几组。所见这种璜形制均一</span><span lang="EN-US">......"</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">组佩中璜均为底部弧形内凹</span><span lang="EN-US">?? </span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">因手中图片不丰,所见两周组佩中的璜没有此类形制,很想看看这个组佩的全图,学习一下</span><span lang="EN-US">~~<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">璜</span><span lang="EN-US">,</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">半璧也。</span><span lang="EN-US">——</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">《说文》</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">以玄璜礼北方。</span><span lang="EN-US">——</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">《周礼</span><span lang="EN-US">·</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">大宗伯》</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">璜是一种弧形的玉器。一般都认为</span><span lang="EN-US">“</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">半璧曰璜</span><span lang="EN-US">”</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">,其实多数璜只是璧的三分之一,有的甚至只是四分之一,只有少数接近二分之一。</span> <span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">璜虽为弧形,也呈现多种风貌,如殷墟妇好墓出土的璜,就有扇形、半环形、半月形、拱桥形等。</span> <span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">璜形的来源不是把一个璧一分为二,因为新石器时代出土的璜没有一件够得上</span><span lang="EN-US">“</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">半璧</span><span lang="EN-US">”</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">的。根据那志良先生的意见,</span><span lang="EN-US">“</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">璜之形,是模仿</span><span lang="EN-US">“</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">虹</span><span lang="EN-US">”</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Verdana; mso-hansi-font-family: Verdana">的。</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">从如上所述可知璜的标准形制是如何的,亦可知这个璜并不符合正规形制,且中间部分的纹饰与两侧纹饰不连贯,此类璜纹饰一般多为龙</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">凤</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">人龙纹,整体相互贯通呼应,在不出现断,残改现象时不会出现中断现象,各诸侯国的丧葬礼制也较为严格的遵循周礼,所以觉得是当时残而后改制的作品。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><br/></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">举几个各地所出类似组佩的图片,共同探讨</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New="New"Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">~~</span></p><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265530581.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265573864.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265565257.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265510826.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265555813.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265545443.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265569476.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265592986.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265523925.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/><img src="http://img.obj.cc/forum/dvbbs/2009-7/200971510265523328.jpg" border="0" onclick="zoom(this)" onload="if(this.width>document.body.clientWidth*0.5) {this.resized=true;this.width=document.body.clientWidth*0.5;this.style.cursor='pointer';} else {this.onclick=null}" alt="" /><br/>

宿城小雪 发表于 2009-7-15 10:42:00

<p>这个“半”字作“一部分”解,不从本义。现在也有这样的词汇啊:半信半疑、半成品……一定要全面考察用字,要么迷团可多了。</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>

元大都 发表于 2009-7-14 07:35:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>爱钱如命</i>在2009-7-6 21:33:00的发言:</b><br/>
<p>水果糖啊!掉地下摔了</p></div>
<p>以水果糖的价格匀给我吧<img alt="" src="http://bbs.oldbeijing.org/Skins/default/topicface/face2.gif"/></p>
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